Plymouth Presbyterian Church December 16

I an earlier post I talked about the pull of things are like home, so I decided to go to worship at PPC I had not been back there since I left in June. I had planned to wait until confirmation sunday in January to go back but i might be obligated to be at another church that Sunday. I chose to go back this week because it was the Chistmas pagent. I didn't know what to expect , but was pleased with the warm welcome I received from all. One youth said I shouldn't have left and I hear the buzz from the middle school girls getting ready for the Christmas pagent was that Scott was at Church. The fact that a real King from Africa was in church did not seem as big a deal compared to me being back in the eyes of the youth. It was fun to see lots of old friends. I feel bad I did not have a chance to talk with evryone, hope no one feels slighted. it was a great christmas pagent, using middle school and high school youth added something to it. My mind wandered a bit as I thought about a family friend I know from my youth years at valley who has a pre-trial hearing for some pretty bad things he is accused of doing. I am praying for him that things go well for him at the hearing. the monster his accuser is making him out to be is not the person I have known for many years.

Valley community Presbyterian Church December 2

With the Christmas season I think we tend to graviate to things that feel like home, so I felt compeled to go to Valley the church I grew up in for a visit. I have been there on a yearly basis for the workcamp echo service, but can not remember when I have attended a traditional sunday worship service. While I grew up at Valley and know many people there from those years and people I have met more recently it did not feel like home as much as I expected it to. This is not a value statement( good or bad) as much as it is the realization that things do not stay the same. I think there are many great people at Valley and things I like and don't like about the way they do things and will keep Valley in mind when I decide where I will eventually land and worship on a regular basis , possibly even join. I will add to this post more at a later time and talk more in detail about the service itself.

update on my journey

SO a lot has happened since I last did a post, I began a new job and am starting to feel like my life is getting back to "normal". conventional wisdom says you get jobs via networking and the online job sites are not very effective when you post your resume on them. Well things worked out for me that went against these thoughts, I did not put as much effort into networking as I should have ( somewhat due to I was not sure what I wanted to do) and I got a phone call from a company that church management software that they saw my resume on a job website. They were looking for someone to do phone tech support for thier products. I interviewed with them and two weeks ago became a tech support specialist with Church management solutions. I am enjoying the work despite the fact they want me to learn the financial products and to provide support for these. I am not an accounting person ( think I started an accounting course in college but dropped it). I work 8-5 with a one hour lunch break and liek the fact we are not on a phone que ( so it is a pace that suits me). I am enjoying being home in the evening and will like having my weekends free once I finish working at Office Max in a few weeks. I might be helping a church with their youth program for a few months and am excited about move leadership opportunies with the presbytery youth ministries. I will post some recent church visits in other posts, but want to suggest I woould welcome comments to any of my posts.

Church visit: Bryn Mawr Presbyterian November 25

A country church in the city, this was my overall impression of this church. Even thought this church is located just outside of North Mpls. I had never seen it before or thought about visiting it. Last night as I was thinking about where to worship today, I looked at their website and realised it was close to work, so not to hard to find and not to far to drive to. The only things I knew about it were that Jamie Schultz was the pastor who I heard preach years ago when she did her neutral pulpit sermon at Plymouth for the Byrn Mawr church ( don't think I was working there at the time, just happened to visit Plymouth on that Sunday). Also I knew the Cedar Lake Seven group came out of Bryn Mawr and that it was a small church. Today when arrived ( late, which is something i need to work on) I was surprised at how many others were arriving at the same time, maybe I wasn't late and the service started later than I thought, entering the church I was greeted and handed a bulletin and realized there were in the middle of announcements, I was late but had not missed much. The announcements were done by members standing up where they sat and giving their announcement from there, it was a small enough space this worked for the most part, one person asked a speaker to speak louder and repeat what they had said. The size and feel of the space was almost country church like, and the fact that there were about 75-100 people there added to this feeling. The lay worship leader was not at a lectern and seemed to have more freedom and involvelemt in the service than most lay worship leaders in Presbyterian churches have. He even did a nice quick reflection on rights of passages and related it to a young man who was turning thirteen this week and his father invited him to carve the turkey this year. There was no prayer of confession, but instead a prayer of honesty, I like this slight change in wording. Singing the hymns I noted they do not have the blue Presbyterian hymnal, whats up with so few churches that use this hymnal? Being Christ the King Sunday the first hymn was a familiar hymn, think the title might have been different than I was used to and it bugged me that the hymnal changed the words "Crown him" to "crown creator" maybe the PCUSA hymnal is not gender correct enough for this church. Jamie did a nice job with the time for children talking about Christ the King Sunday and how " Christ" is not Jesus's last name, but means anointed one. I expected her to speak in gender neutral terms after the hymn, but she used him, and he when referring to Jesus. Her Sermon expanded on Christ the King Sunday and it's role as end of the church year and tied it in with the end of the calendar year. It was a good sermon and was nice to hear someone preach about Christ the king Sunday in this way. The offering was unusual in the sense that as small as the space is the plates did not get passed down rows, but people were able to reach them on the end of the rows even if seated in the middle of the rows. The Doxology while it used the three parts of the trinity, did not have father, son, but instead Creator, Christ and was a more upbeat tune than I was used to. The worship leader asked for prayer requests and people raised their hands and shared and then he did a nice job of repeating them for all to hear. During this time a woman lit candles( votives) on the communion table from the communion table candles for each prayer request, this reminded me of the Catholic prayer candle tradition and seemed a little odd. Instead of a prayer following this time, we sang a song in response. The lord's prayer- they had Father/mother on the first line, to me this a bit much and is going a little too far with pc language. After the service i introduced my self to Jamie, we have talked on the phone and via email but had not met previously. I also talked with clerk of session who approached me as I was talking to Jamie. She shared that she was impressed with he number of people in worship on the Sunday after thanksgiving and that while they are a small church do not have a lot of Gray haired people and have a lot of children. I asked how many live in the neighborhood as on their website they describe themselves as a neighborhood church. She did not know but guessed 50%, my sense is it is higher than this. while I think the size and feel of the church building reminded me of a country church, I think there is an energy there that shows it is much more than that. I do feel however that from the announcements to the prayers of the people it feels like a close knit small community which might be very appealing to some and hard for others to feel welcome.

Illnois quick trip November 10-11

This weekend I traveled with my family to Illinois to celebrate my Uncle Foof's 70th birthday. We drove about 6 1/2 hours each way and were there from about 4:30 pm Sat. to 10:30 am Sun. so we were there slightly longer than we were in the car. My Uncle Foof ( his real name is Philip, but one of his brothers could not say Philip and called him Foof and the name has stuck) is about a year younger than my dad and the second child ( my dad the first) in the La Salle Dobovsky's. Not only does my uncle have a unique name, he is a character, so Sat. night was a fun night of "roasting" him, heard many stories that have been told over and over and a few new ones. The celebration was held at an Italian restraunt in Illinois Valley that like all the best places in the area is known for it's fried chicken. After the celebration, my brother and I joined some of our cousins and Foof's partner Ski & his wife at a local bar, that was the place to be in La Salle/Peru but was a true hole in the wall, longer than it was wide and very few tables & chairs. It was fun hanging out with our cousins despite the smoke filled room (Il is not smoke free until Jan 1). I remembered bar close at 2am when I lived there but seems there is a newer law that keeps them open until 3am on Sat. night, we left the bar at 2:30 am and then stoped at the IHOP next to our hotel so it was a late night. I am bumbed I am not going to be at the Dobovsky thanksgiving this year at my cousin's home in San Fransico due to the cost of the trip and my limited funds. On the way out of town we drove by the home my dad grew up in (surprised it is still there with all the land it is on and how small it is)and then the cementary where my dads ashes are buried next to his parents. It was the first time I had been there since I missed gradmas funeral ( I was in Ohio at the time) and the time when my dad's ashes were buried (don't remember why). It was interestering as my Dad's marker was in between his parents and next to three trees.

Worship at Westminster- Minneapolis Nov 4,2007

So I finally worshiped at Westminster, following the suggestions of my mother, and others to check it out. When trying to decide where to go this week after not having worshiped in a church for a while I stumbled upon two things on the Westminister website that caught my attention. First I saw that Meghan Gage the associate pastor for children, youth and families are giving the sermon. I had lunch with Meghan back in September to talk about youth ministry in the Presbytery and had talked with her at the middle school Clearwater retreat a couple of weeks ago. It is always fun to hear someone preach that you know. The second thing was it was Children's Sabbath Sunday at Wesminster, I have heard of churches that celebrate this Sunday but am not sure if I have been to one before. I was a little Surprised that Meghan was preaching as I thought she would be up at Clearwater with her Senior High group for the second fall Sr High retreat, so I emailed her to double check if she truly was preaching this week. She confirmed that she was and suggested that was not a "typical" Sunday at Westminster. My sense is a "typical" Sunday worship service is ok, but I enjoy when things are different and I wanted to experience Children's sabbath Sunday even if it was not a "typical" Sunday. So with that introduction on how I chose Westminster this week, on to my thoughts about the service.

I read on the website how to get to the church and where to park for free downtown, after passing the parking ramp entrance I circled around the block and found a place to park in the ramp. I followed people from the ramp into the church and was very impressed by the signage and the music coming from the sanctuary which led me where to go. I was a little late and caught the tail end of the processional hymn. This is a unique Westminster spectacle that seems a little high church to me. The Sanctuary is very bright and grand, but after a while you tend to feel it a comfortable place of worship and forget a little about the size and wonderful architechtial details. I think the use of dimming the lights at various times helped with this feeling. One thing that was different at this worship service being Children's Sabbath was a time for adults. A representitive sample of adults were invited to come forward instead of children and the middle school youth led the time. It was neat to see some youth I met just a few weeks before, in this leadership role. One youth seemed familiar to me during the retreat and seeing her this morning I remembered who she was. It was Anne W. who when I was at North Como danced in the aisle during worship as she felt moved by the music. Her dad taught middle school Sunday school at North Como and her mom was very warm and welcoming to me when I first started attending North Como.

Following the time for adults there was a moment for stewardship and the pastor ( I think it was Byron Thompson) had two young people help him and talk about what ways programs there are part of benefit from stewardship pledges and then about what pledges are. Both children gave great answers some expected and some unexpected. I thought this was well done and a nice time in with Children's Sabbath Sunday. Following three scripture readings ( why three?, are these all of the lectionary texts this week?) Meghan invited children forward to join her for the sermon ( not the children's sermon). She did a wonderful job of sharing with the kids that she was going to be using art they might not all be able to see and reading a story with great pictures that they might want to come see after the service. I also liked how she shared that this time was going to be longer than the traditional children's time and they were free to go back to their seats with family if they wanted to. Meghan shared a great story about a girl who lived in the US and her grandmother lived in Palestine. The story talked about how this girl had great experiences while visiting her grandmother and then wrote a letter to the President saying she chose peace. During the story kids added pieces to the art work and then at the end Meghan described each piece (how each involved kids and then together they made up the image of Jesus). Following the sermon was the offering, then came communion.

I was curious about how they do communion as all churches do it the serving of the elements a little different. If St. Luke's communion was chaos this was the complete opposite, very orchestrated. I watched in amazement as the servers all moved to their starting spots and waited until they all got to their place then started serving. then after serving they met their partner and walked in pairs up to the front of the sanctuary.

while I enjoyed the service a lot I am not sure if is a place I would worship week to week, but could see myself going back from time to time. my mother says she enjoys worshiping there because it feels like home, I think this makes sense because it feels somewhat like her home church in Bismark. While I have nothing against a more formal/high church service it does not feel like home to me. I think this is because of my years growing up at Valley and the informality/suburb church feel it had. I noticed at Westminster that all of the male ushers and male elders all had suits/sportcoats and ties, I felt a little under dressed in my polo shirt and work khakis.

After worship I stopped in the fellowship space and saw a set of twin boys I had met up at Clearwater, I taught them how to read minds. They seem like great youth and one of them is very interested in baseball, when I saw him today he was pretending to be batting.

One thing I thought about today is if in writing this blog of my worship experiences, leads me to not truly worship and enjoy the experience as I think more about what I want to write about from the visit. On the other hand maybe I am more observant and pay more attention to things I would not if I was not writing about it in this blog.

I also think a big part of finding a church home is finding a place that feels comfortable, like home. When I started this journey I was not anxious to find a new church home, but am starting to think I would like to find a church home to attend most Sundays and spend one or two Sundays a month visiting other churches. A sense of being grounded but also experiencing other churches.

October 28 - Sr high retreat @Clearwater recap

I planed and led the Sr high retreat for the Presbytery of the Twin cities area. It was a successful and different retreat for many reasons. First it was a very small group, total size youth and adults was 34. So we all stayed in eagle Lodge and had small groups with mixed ages and mixed churches. I realize now I could have done a better job mixing genders ( three out of the four boys were in one of the four small groups). The small total group size also allowed us unique opportunities like, crawling through the tunnel between the carriage house and eagle Lodge, and playing Sardines in Eagle Lodge. Gary W. had a great idea for a Presbytery youth event, playing sardines in multiple churches in one night, a couple of rounds in each church. Somewhat unentinionally this retreat was less programed than a traditional falll retreat ( it had a snow camp laid back feel to it) I think there is a balance between too much programed time and a lot of free time, think the small group we had this retreat and all staying in Eagle made this format work better than it would with a large group. Some of my ideas for activities and small group time worked and others did not, think I did not have a good grasp of the theme myself and this was reflected in the vagueness of activities and small group time. Being that I had a small group to work with myself I was not able to get a feel for how the small groups worked as I did last year when I was able to float from group to group. While I ran some ideas by a few people before the retreat I did too much myself and vow to find a co-leader/planner and to seek out more feedback from others for future retreats. I had originally planned to work with a good friend and fellow youth leader ( we had talked about various ideas for retreats) but then she moved to Nebraska.

October 21- no church visit family obligations

I did not go to any church for worship on Oct 21, due to family obligations ( brunch celebrating my mother's birthday)/

Clearwater Middle School Retreat 07

This weekend I was up at Clearwater's fall middle school retreat. My friend Gary led it and along with Chris from Gary's church we drove up there together. It was fun to be a helper for the weekend and to be able to float amoung the groups and get to know the youth and the adults up there. There were nine churches represented with youth and adults. The adults were for the most part were old friends who knew each other from previous youth retreats. Those adults who had not been to Clearwater for a retreat before did a great job as well. The youth were a neat group who seemed to have fun and enjoyed the weekend. Gary and I have some common ideas about retreats, one is to try to shake things up a little so that it is not the same retreat everytime. I have to admit I have copied some of Gary's ideas from his retreats for retreats I have led or are going to lead. One such idea was how to do worship differently on Sun am. In the past most retreats have had each group taking a part of the worship service, preparing and leading their part. This retreat with help from Andrew, Sarah, Sally and I am sure others the worship service was created and people were asked to take an already created part. In addition Micheal who is the Associate Pastor at the Austin church did a short message ( sermon) that did a wonderful job of tying together what we talked about and learned over the weekend and challenged us to live out what we talked about. This worship service was a nice mix of scripture, liturgy and music led by the worship band from Rochester.
In addition to the great weekend, I now have a couple of addtional churches to visit and worship at including the Austin church and the Rochester church.

no church visits October 7

I did not make it to church today. I could list a number of reasons I talked myself into staying home instead of going to church ( which being world communion Sunday, I am a little bummed I did not go anywhere). Next Sunday I wll be up at Clearwater and will do a post on the middle school retreat a week from today or tommorow.

Presbyfest 07

It was a great day of connecting Presbyterians from around the Presbytery. I have really enjoyed being involved with the planning of Presbyfest 07 and would like to contribute more for the next one ( Carol O, this does not mean I am volunteering to be the registrar). I enjoyed catching up with many friends from various churches and seeing people enjoy themselves. The afternoon youth workshop while small I think went very well and hopefully gave everyone involved a number of ideas. I think the table challenge will be done at Church of the Way, First Presb. of South St. Paul and possibly Valley in the coming weeks. I also think a number of youth may be joining Sheltered Reality soon. From all I heard the event was successful and I think people who attended will give positive feedback. A Huge thanks to Lisa and the members of North Como for being such wonderful hosts and going above and beyond the expectations of a host church.

church visit #11 Church of all Nations

So once again I visited Church of All nations ( CAN) as this week my friend Moses actually gave his Triennium testimony, after it got pushed back two times before. Upon entering the church I noticed that many of the members congregate just inside of the doors by sanctuary, but there were no greeters till you get to the ushers. I wonder what needing to navagiate around church members and no greeters says to visitors in terms of being a welcoming church? While the people all seem very friendly during passing the peace and they "welcome?" visitors by having them stand and introduce themselves near the end of the service, at times it seems this is a close knit congregation that might be tough for visitors to feel welcomed. I think my shyness when I am in a new place and a large group probably means it is tougher for me to connect with new people and feel welcome but I wonder if churches could do more in welcoming visitors. For the first time in my visits to CAN during the welcoming time it was mentioned that there are cards in the pews to fill out if you are interested in memebership info.

On Saturday at Presbyfest I talked with Pastor Joo about CAN and realised they are trying not to follow some of the traditional ways of doing church that seem to be institutionalised. I wonder if greeting visitors and fellowship pads fall into this and why they do not do these things. I am all for not doing things just because all other churches do them or they have always been done, but I think you should find alterative ways to do some of these things that welcome visitors.

Again CAN seems to have a number of visitors, the question I have is what is their retention rate of visitors? Of the visitors that introduced themselves yesterday I think most will not be back often or potential new members. A large group of visitors was a small congregation that once a month visits other chruches for worship, what a neat idea, but I wonder how much many churches would want to do the same thing. A group of students in front and behind me were there to fulfill a class requirement of attending a multi-cultural church. at least two visitors where there because of thier girlfriends.

A couple of notes about worship, the praise band seems good, but too small ( two singers) to effectively lead the congregation in some unfamilar songs. the sermon ( which I will write about later in this post) seems to drasticly outweight the rest of the service in terms of time. Moses did a fine job giving his testimony which was more about his overall faith journey than his time at Triennium while he did talk about how Triennium was piviotal in refocusing his faith and involment at CAN. After Moses spoke and the welcoming, announcement time there was a young man who did a spoken word peace called "community" it was a good piece about social justice.

The sermon- Pastor Jin is a very effective speaker, he started by talking about the paradigm of sacrity and how we can never have enough. As the sermon went on it appeared to be a stewardship sermon about how greedy we are and the need to give back more which was given to us by God. it is amazing to hear that80% of the members pledged last year at CAN and that 70% of those tithe. Pastor Jin also said that the average giving in mainline churches per member is 2.3% and evagelical churches is 2.7% and that Presbyterians are per member the richest Christians. While I think the stewardship( giving part of the sermon) was powerful, I have spent a lot of timee thinking about the paradigm of scarity. I think this is something we all need to think about when do we have enough? What do we need to make us happy? I think the signs of a great sermon are that they speak to us and give us something to ponder for some time. After the sermon, a woman in front of me said, wow what a powerful sermon.

I think I probably will be back at CAN eventually, but I will not go as far as my friend Thao wanted me to and say that this was the best worship serivce I have been to in this journey.

Youth ministry and technology - connecting with youth

When I started this blog, the intent was to document my church visits each week. I have added some posts that deal with issues in the church. I had started another blog that dealt with Youth ministry as well as other interests of mine planes, trains, tigers and ministry that I think I will still update posts on the non-ministry topics, but will use this blog "Scott's Journey" to write about ministry topics.

now on to the post about youth ministry and technology - how to connect with youth? My intent with this post is not to state an opinion on this topic but to raise questions for further discussion.

Youth culture today is one were connections are made and maintained through various forms of technology. From MySpace ( which seems to be used less by youth as their primary or only online connection source), to Facebook, text messages and cell phones, youth seem to have no shortage of ways to communicate with their peers. I want to raise some questions about what role and boundaries should youth ministry leaders have in joining youth in this connected world?

Also what effect do these mediums have for youth of various social-economic backgrounds, their sense of popularity and having so much of their lives exposed to to their peers?

First questions about youth ministry adults and their use of technology to stay connected with their youth. In my work I was always looking for new ways or additional forms of communicating with the youth I worked with. I created an IM screen name, myspace pages for myself and the group and blogs for myself and the youth group. I had and used cell phone numbers for various youth and did e-vites for various events. These forms of communication were in addition to emails I sent the whole group ( and parents) and flyers that were mailed home to each youth.

In trying to reach youth in many ways, questions were raised from a concerned parent about IM discussions I had with youth ( protecting myself and them) and having names with pictures on the group blog. I quickly found an IM client that logged every word of IM chats I took part in and reassured the parent that I only used first names on the blog. Looking back I think my response was maybe too defensive and I did not look at some possible issues I should have.

One question is: what is the reason for entering the youth culture using the forms of communication that many of them use? What could be some possible drawbacks or benefits from doing this?

At one time I heard that sometimes youth will share things or respond in deeper ways in these forums and that this was a benefit or reason for youth leaders to be part of this world. At what point does this sharing or deep discussion cross some boundaries that should not be crossed between youth and adults who work with them? Is this possibly a reason to not take part in these forms of communication, or just something to be very cautious and aware of.

Another statement I heard recently that causes me to pause was that "when a youth enters a room or event that it is good to minister to them where they are at and who they are without knowing about certain things about them they reveal in these "connected" environments that might change your view of them." So the question I have is how much do we need to know or should we know about the youth we work with? Are there dangers in knowing too much about a youth?

Now on to questions about effects of these forms of communication for youth themselves. I wonder how much youth that do not have the economic means to have computer access or cell phones that their peers have are viewed by their peers? Also how much does friend count for youth's effect their self esteem? Is it good that youth can measure popularity in this way? Many youth on facebook show their relationship status and the question that someone raised to me on this is,does this make it tough for some youth to be single, or not in any relationship? Finally what boundaries if any do youth have about what they share in this non face to face communication? I wonder how or if youth ministries should have discussions with their youth about some of these questions?

I do think youth ministry leaders should find forums to discuss the questions about youth leaders, their roles and boundaries in this connected world. I know I said no opinion, I guess I would not say I think youth leaders should or should not take part ( this is a discussion they need to make for themselves) but I do think that doing so without discussion with others might be the wrong approach. I think this discussion could be with other youth leaders within a church, church leadership, or peers from other churches.

I am wondering if some online discussion forum for youth ministry leaders, paid and volunteer in the Presbytery of the Twin cities area might be something to look into. Please let me know if this is something you might be interested in taking part in. you can leave a comment on the blog or email me scdobo@gmail.com

Clearwater day trip - September 21

Today I rode with Gary " the Wass" up to Clearwater to meet with DJ and talk about the upcoming fall youth retreats. When we got to the camp DJ invited us to join him for lunch, Eric - a member of the summer staff and the "interim" program director also joined us. They took us to the Deerstand, a restaurant that was once a church and is now filled with various animal heads.

During lunch we talked about the retreats and got DJ and Eric talking about Clearwater history, and parts of the camp property that many people have not seen before. Some of this was a result of the Presbytery Sr High retreat having a theme that deals with seeing things with new eyes. In this spirit one activity of this retreat will be to see some things at camp few have seen in order to see Clearwater with new eyes. Gary and myself were fascinated with some of the things we learned about Clearwater. When we got back to the camp DJ showed us some places in Eagle basement ( including the entry to the tunnel connecting the carriage house) and the stones in the lake leftover from the construction of Eagle and railroad tracks used to move the stones. DJ also showed us a rate sheet from the 50's? I think a week at camp was $5.

On the way home we stopped at the Unclaimed freight store in Milaca. I have always wondered about this store but never took the time to stop. It was different than I thought, I think you could get some good bargins here and pick up some unique things. I think it would be fun to give youth $5 or less to see who could come up with the most unique item. One example of something I saw there was a giant, table top size Pez dispensor with a GB Packers helment that also played NFL sounds.

I came home from this trip exctied about the fall retreats and discovering more about Clearwater on my next trips there. One other Clearwater thing to look for if you are curious is the remains of the foundation for a traders shack that dates back to early fur trading days.

Church visit #10 First Presbyterian of Maple Plain (Independence?)

This morning the plan was to visit my friends at First Presbyterian Maple Plain. They have a 9:00am worship service and it takes about 1/2 hour of travel time to get there. I figured if I left by 8:20 at the latest I would have time to find the church ( how big is Maple Plain I thought). I had been to Maple Plain earlier this fall to have lunch with Julie MK the youth director at First Presb. Julie had told me in general terms how to get to the church from where we had lunch, but I did not write down them down and guessed it would not be a hard church to find. I was running behind this am and did not map quest the church. When I got in my car it was 8:25 and I was running low on gas, but thought I had plenty of gas to get to Maple Plain and maybe have time to fill up there before church. I get to Maple Plain and try to follow the directions as Julie told me, something about turning at the stop sign ( which is cty rd 6) I must have forgot that I needed to turn off of 6 and I did not know the church is actually in Independence not Maple Plain, so when I saw a sign that I was independence I assumed I went to far.

I did not remember what street the church was on and was running really low on gas at this point, so after driving around Maple Plain figuring I would stumble on the church, I found a gas station and filled up. I tend not to ask for directions, but I went inside the gas station and asked about directions to the Presbyterian church in Maple Plain. Neither of the workers knew where it was and so I asked for a phone book, the church was not listed in the big phone book so I inquired about a smaller local phone book they were not in that either. with a full tank of gas I thought I would give it one more shot, I found my self on 6 again and was about to give up when I saw a sign for the Presbyterian church 3 blocks ahead. When I arrived at the church it was 9:30 and I decided to sneak in and take part in the 2nd half of the service and then Sunday school after that . The church looked smaller in person than it does on their website.

I walked in and saw the sanctuary in front of me closed in by french glass doors ( tougher to sneak in when you have to open a door) I saw Emily who I knew from triennium in the last pew and I sat next to her and her mother. Meg the pastor was reading the scripture, so I got there just before the sermon. The sanctuary seemed very modern( guess they probably did a renovation fairly recently. I tried to think of what it reminded me of and sad to say the best I could come up with is a funeral chapel. The walls are bright white drywall which could use some color and maybe some soft wall hangings to soften up the brightness of the room. The front has a neat cross in the shape of a church window, that I thought had glass with a light behind it until I saw it with the light off. The pulpit, piano and organ are on a high platform that a steep set of stairs leads to . There is a light bar with stage type lighting that is used for plays/musicals they do at this church. Sitting in the back but yet not that far from the pulpit it seemed the sound was too amplified and not natural sounding enough, there was someone sitting in front of the sound board, but it seemed even when there was some reverb from the pastors mic that he did not adjust this at the board. Being as late as I was I will make a return visit sometime and can only comment on the service from the scripture reading on.

I was surprised at a few things, first that the offering is done before the sermon. I thought the offering was a response to the word proclaimed ( sermon and scripture reading). I also was caught off guard with the pew bibles being the Good news translation. Not being a bible translation snob, but I always thought this was a kids translation and not used very much anymore. In seminary onetime a classmate brought a good news bible to class or discipleship group ( forget which) and the professor made fun of it and threatened to burn or shred it. During Sr High Sunday school I asked about the bibles and Lizzy who I appreciate her bold questioning nature asked what was wrong with the good news bibles, it's just very simplistic language I said but did not have a very good answer, I guess sometimes we get into this idea that the NRSV is the Presbyterian pew bible. I guess being more readable is not a bad thing.

One unique element after the sermon was a musical interlude, a time for reflection before the prayer concerns, prayers of the people and the Lords prayer. there was a closing hymn, the benediction where everyone was to hold hands, and a closing song that must be sung each week as the congregation seemed to know without looking at the words.

comments on the sermon- the basic premise was what belongs to God, what belongs to us and how can we be good stewards of what belongs to God. I liked at one point Meg asked a question pointed to the youth and children in the congregation which prior to this I was wondering if Preachers ever consider that their whole audience is not just adults.

following worship I went into the fellowship hall which is next to the sanctuary for fellowship time and connected with youth who went to Triennium and Jim Shannon who is the accompanist and I knew when he had a similar position at Plymouth Presb. following fellowship time I joined the Sr high youth for Sunday school. A small group but they had all seemed to contribute to the discussion and used a video called 24-7 experience about 7 youth from around the country visiting Jesus followers in various cities. This weeks lesson was the first in the series and dealt with what it means to be Christian, some stereotypes people have about Christians, and how easy or difficult it is to be a christian.

this is getting a very long post especially since I did not attend the whole worship service so I will end it now and may pick it up later.

Politcal correctness and gender netural lanuage in churches

while I consider myself as liberal in thinking about most things, some political correctness stuff and gender netural language buggs me. Where the PC stuff has effected me lately is where accomidations are being made for a small few despite their effect on a larger majority. This is not to say accomidations should not be made, but I think they can be done without having everyone take part in them.

A prime example is communion and food alergies. At the church I worked at a concern was raised about those who have a gluten allegry. So a gluten free wafer was researched and instead of finding a way to seperate the gluten free wafer from the traditional bread, the change was made that everyone would use the gluten free wafer instead of bread.

I have been at other churches that have provided a gluten free alterative and bread, as well as wine or grape juice in Lutheran churches.

The gender netural language thing- this is were I know I am a real traditionalist and my dislike of change of somethings rears its head. Growing up in the church I struggled with the idea of the Trinity. I was oftern confused do we worship Jesus or God, father or Son, it wasn't until college that I dealt with this faith hurdle and realized that Jesus and God, Father and Son along with the Holy Spirit were all seperate but yet all one. Then people want me to refer to the Trinity as Creator, Christ, holy spirit. I 'm not sure can do this.

My late friend Karen Lea, came the closest to opening my eyes on this issue. She got me to see that God is such a wonderful and unique enity that we should not place a gender limit on God. I am stuggling as I write this not to use gender specific pronouns as I think in life we often use these gender specific pronouns without thinkning about it, or any intention. Any example is how often do you hear people refer to dogs with mascline pronouns and cats with femamine pronouns, despite the gender of the specific animal. Or people that refer to a boat in femamine terms ( maybe someone could come up with a hidden meaning behind this, but most would not think about this until someone brings it up).

I am trying to be more flexiable and open minded on this issue, but I am not sure if I will ever totaly convert to speaking or writing in gender netural language espcially when refeing to God and Jesus.

I guess what I have the hardest thing with is singing hymns I have known for a long time with mascline nouns, like the doxology. I really don't like the version that condenses the trinity into Trinune God whom I adore, as I think it is important to name the three parts of the trinity. Goes back to my early statement about stuggling with the Trinity.

One thing that really bothers me and I am not sure I will ever accept is the Sophia notion. In the wisdom lit class I took in seminary the idea presented to me was that there was a feminie dieity called wisdom or Sophia that along with God helped create the world. If we go back to Karen's idea of not limiting God with a gender, doesn't this seem like a case of not wanting to refer to God male gender terms but yet claim that there was a female essanse along side of the gender netural creator. Which is it not gender or a male and female essance of God ( which would mean that God alone is like 2 in one seperate from the trinity.

I think as I am giving this more thought I would like to have an open discussion with someone about this from the gender netural viewpoint. I think like some topics that have strong supporters we often worry that people are so set in their view that they do not listen or want to acknowlege other views on the same issue, which makes an open discussion difficult and leans more towards a debate. I will admit that on this issue in the past I would not have been a very good listener or receptive to other views on this, but I hope that I am at a point I could have a good discussion on this.

I feel while I am more open on the gender netural lanuage I am still very resitant to changing things like the doxology that in my mind should be the way I learned it as a kid. I wonder if there are things for everyone as much as we don't always want to admit it that for us is one way and should always be that way.

Church and current culture

Most main line denominations are seeing dwindling numbers and it seems the mega churches are the only ones growing. In seminary I had a class called "Reading the Audience" an evangelism class called a mission class ( thats a whole another post on the defintion of mission). The instructors talked about Paul and his spreading the word, I challenged them in that I traveled many of the same path of Paul in Turkey and Greece and despite the great work Paul did, much of Turkey is muslim and despite being a "secular" country it is tough to be a christian in Turkey. The response to my challenege was that the wars caused this change in religion majority. I guess that something could be said about not adapting to the culture.

In two sermons I have heard recently this point was brought up and I think something that needs more attention and study. One pastor talked about how the churches of Paul have disapeared but yet christianity still exists in new churches. I am amazed at how young people when surveyed have in large numbers claimed to be spiritual but not religious. I don't think this means there are a lot of out there spiritual young people who are in to crystals, the earth,etc.... but more that young people are turned off by the church establishments.

I am not sure I like the idea of churches droping their denominiation from thier name and it is tough to figure out what denominiatoin some churches are. This seems to be a mega church attempt to deal with the dislike of the traditional church establishments. being a Presbyterian I am proud of my denomoniation connection and do not want to deny that. I am wondering what we do to adapt without denying who we are. How do we make changes that are not just slight changes to programs but how we do church?

One idea I liked was in the Atlanta area a new housing development/retail area was being built that would attract young people. A local Presbyterian church purchased a condo in this development for the new pastor of young adults and they made arrangements to use the common room for bible studies, worship services, and church sponsered fellowship events. The older members of the congregation did not understand the need to meet outside of the church or as I have it it refered to sometimes as "The God Box". This why change thinking is one thing that is hurting our long term church growth.

I think we as Presbyterians and possibly many other denomonations have not put a lot of time or effort in to our ministry towards young adults. I read a book from the Alban institute that talked about the different generations of many churches and the power stuggles that exist with these groups. In alot of churches there are the 60+ retired folks, the late 40 -50's families that have kids in high school or college and then the younger families that have kids ranging from infants to middle school. The one group that is not very present is the young single or married adults without kids. the saying I have heard but think is a cop put is that young people leave the church when they graduate from high school and will retrun when they have kids.

most churches have staff for children and youth, some are begining to hire staff for the older members but few have staff dedicated to young adults. I would love to see more churches hire a staff person for youth and young adults and another one for children. often do to budgets one person, a lot of times the associate pastor is responsible for all of these age groups as well as other pastoral duties, one reason I have not wanted to persue ordained ministry if I stayed in the minsitry for a career.

what do churches offer young people to attract them? how are churches adapting to culture. I think the fast paced culture, that is a technology connected culture is one the church has yet to really embrace. the synical could say that cell phones, computers are detirorating the community that churches once had, I would argue the connections are still there in a differnet way.

Member involvement vs. church staffing

So this topic is of interest to me because of my experience being part of a church staff, some stragetic planing my friends at North Como Presbyterian are doing and some comments this past week at CAN. North Como ( where I was a member and active with the youth/ce program for a couple of years) has for years been looking at this issue. When I was there they had a group called shared ministries, and even had a director of share ministries. They focused on helping people realize their gifts and use them. Currently they have a Ministry Discernment task force they describe as being charged to prayerfuly discern and recommend a ministry staff configuration that empowers and encourages each member's faith engagement.

I was excited to see they have set some bold goals in connection to this focus. The one that really applies here is that they will increase the number of faith engaged regulars who are participating in NCPC groups or activities from the current level of approximently 60% to 90% by 2011. I think this activity measurement is something that most churches do not look at, it does not show up in the annual report or stats reported to the denomination.

When people talk about size of churches the usual question is how many members? my lutheran friends ( maybe beause once you are baptised they count you as a memeber) ask how many worship on average each week. how many churches have ______ # worship each week but a very small percent of that involved in a church group or activity outside of worship.

Maybe the question should be raised, why do we join churches? just for worship or for other programs as well? How much do we want churches to provide a lot of programs but expect the paid staff to do all the work?

At CAN the comment was made about how they don't spend a lot of the church budget on staff ( the way it was said was if people in that church don't want much of the money they give to the church going to staff salaries) and so they need their interns and members need to do thier parts for programs to happen. I have a few issues with interns, I think it takes at least a year to establish relationships needed in ministry and for most interns once the relationships are developed thier internship is done. Also I question even though they are paid how much people expect them to do because they are getting money from the church . Seems like cheap labor and I would be concerned about how much the church makes sure they are not overworked for little or no money. Also paid staff tends to keep people from getting involved in leadership as they rationalize that is the paid staff's jobs.

Visiting churches I am always curious about the amount of programs compared to the amount of paid staff. While I think churches need to value lay staff more ( pay and support) I am wondering if for some churches it is better to have less paid staff to enourage more ownership and involvement of church members.

Use of Technology in worship

Seems most churches have at least one screen and projector in the sanctuary some of the time this day in age. Is this a good thing, is this a fad, or long term is this as much a part of the worship service as the organ or piano? Do churches use this visual technology well?

I have an older friend who claims if her church projects the hymns on the screen every week, she will change churches. I wonder how much churches have listened to the congregation before adding this tool to worship, or if they lose people like my friend and do not know why or hadn't considered feedback before making this move?

One church music director told me he liked the hymns on the screen because it forces people to sing out instead into their hymnals as they read the words. While I think this is an intersting arguement for projecting hymns, I have not seen a church that projects the music score with the words like it is in the hymnal. I do not really read the music notes when I sing ( I am always amazed when people call sing a musical note on command) but I know some do and I wonder what this does for songs espically unfamilar songs?

The one use of the screen I liked at first was the use of a camera to show the kids and the leader during the children's message, but I am wondering again who is the children's message for and why don't they use the camera for close up on the elements of communion? Also at some point are we making worship into a tv show or stage show? I have seen screens used for visuals during a whole worship service or just the sermon or announcements. The question is raised does this add to worship or become a distraction? see the children in worship post for Kirkagards vision of worship and think about how this technology fits or doesn't fit.

While I think the most prevelant use of technology in worship is the projector/screen trend/fad but there are uses of technology in worship to touch on. The other big technology issue in worship is related to sound. Having run the sound board at a church, things go well when no one notices the sound, there is no feedback and everyone can hear all of those leading worship. using Kirkagards vision of worship ( there is another word to describe this that I don't remember)

I wonder if churches instead of having the mics only up front could have them spaced thoughout the congregation for those in the pews to participate in worship with out always being up at the lectern or pulpit?

Also I wonder if pastors or worship leaders should give more thought to mics/sound when planning worship? to use the play ( thats it Kirkagard views worship like a play) metaphor, plays always have tech rehersals and tech notes in the script, why can't churches have a bulletin with tech notes for those running the sound or projector anf not a tech rehersal but a quick meeting with the tech people before worship ( pastors often meet with elders before worship when communion is served).

one last technology thing I haven't touched on yet the use of video clips in worship. I have a friend who went to a worship service service where a Nooma video was used for the sermon. My friend Dan showed a couple of us this video that dealt with a man on a walk in the rain with his infant son. Dan really related to this video with experiences he has had with his son. He was so passionate about the message of the video and his own related story that I encouraged him to ask the Pastor about doing this as the sermon for father's day. This would have been a semon that I think would have touched many fathers or those thinking about their father, more than a tradtional sermon. I am sure some would have complained about video in worship but I think this was an example of use of worship that could be very effective. I am sure I will have more thoughts about technology and worship in a later post.

Children in worship thougts

One thing that having been on staff as a Christian Educator and having taken CE classes in seminary that I have given some thought to is the ideas surrounding children in worship. In this thinking I try not to forget my worship experiences as a child and become one that says even thought I did ______ you should do __________. In the past I might have stated my opinions on this topic as this is the way it should be, but find my self more open minded and willing to consider various view points on this.

So with that background where do we start the discussion about children in worship? I think the first basic question is how do we view children and their role in worship? I heard a story once about a pastor who one Sunday when he was not preaching wanted to view worship through the eyes of children. He sat on the ground instead of on a pew to see what it is like to watch worship when you can not see over the person in front of you. He also crawled around on his knees to look at things like door knob heights, water fountain heights, etc..... I wanted to do this some Sunday but never had the courage to do it and deal with the questions about what I was doing.

I also remember at one church I attended that on certain songs a couple of the little girls would dance in the aisle, the Pastor included them in a worship service at least once after this occured a few times. This church also had complaints at one time about kids being a distraction in worship and some wondering why parents didn't teach their kids on how to "behave" in worship. I have faint memories of the first church I grew up in of one family of kids running in the sanctuary during worship.

I have not even got to the children's message ( sermon) yet and look at the possible things to discuss in terms of children in worship. What about activity bags or scribble paper for kids in worship, kids helping usher or read something during worship, what about singing in a kids choir or a kids bell choir. What ages should the kids be in the service for part of the service, and then for all of the service? What should kids do during the service if they are not in the sanctuary during worship?

As I write and come up with questions I wonder if I should answer my questions or just leave them out there so I do not give my bias to how churches should answer these questions. While I ponder this I will address the children's message ( sermon).

First I know from my classmates in seminary that few enjoy or are prepared when they are given the responsibility for this part of the worship service. Many I knew that had done their year long internship commented on how nervous they were when they did their first children's sermon and how this is was an area they truly grew during their year. just a side note, many recent seminary grads in their first call find themselves either as an associate pastor with children's ministry as part of their position or in a small church where they are the only staff so work with the children by default. Yet there is not class at Luther and I would guess most seminaries that MDiv students are required to take where children in worship is discussed and giving children's messages is taught.

So a question I have is what is the purpose of the children's message? why do churches have it, because everyone else does, or have they thought about what role or purpose it plays in worship. I think from my memory of the book of worship section of the Presbyterian book of order and the common book of worship many denominations use for a worship resource children's sermons are not mentioned in either. if this is to be a children's sermon , isn't a sermon a proclamation of God's word in response to scripture, why do churches do the children's sermon before any scripture is read and for some kids they never hear scripture during worship? Is it ok to put the kids on display to illustrate a key point of the Pastor's sermon later in the service? If this is done, who is the children's sermon really for the kids or the adults? Should an attempt be made to tie the children's sermon to scripture, or can it simply be an idea or principle not related to anything else in the service?

I had mentioned earlier in the post the idea of kids choirs or kids bell choirs, why do we have them up on the chancel area up front, but yet the adult choir sings from the choir loft? Should people always clap( another post in the future on to clap or not clap) when the kids "preform" in worship, what message are we giving kids about their role in worship when we do this and every parent gets out their cameras, in some churches there are more camcorders when kids preform than you see at some school events. How do we communicate with parents and the rest of the congregation expectations and vision of children's role in worship?

Having taught a first worship class this last year to first and second grade students as well as discussing worship in confirmation, the question raised is when do we start educating kids(maybe parents and other adults as well) about worship, the various parts, why we do things,etc...... The last youth service I did we looked at worship from Soren Kirkagard's vision of worship. Simply we often think of the roles in worship in that the congregation is the audience, the worship leaders ( Pastors and music) are the actors and God is the prompter. Kirkagard suggests that the congregation are the preformers, the worship leaders are the prompters and God is the audience. This vision relates somewhat to children and worship but is good to think about for worship overall. I may add to this post or topic in the future but this is enough for now.

Church visit # 9 second visit to CAN

I attended worship at CAN( church of All Nations) for a second time in the last two weeks for two reasons: my first visit was on Labor Day weekend which as I mentioned in that post is not the best time to visit a church, and my friend Moses who attended Triennium with us was to do his Triennium testimony this Sunday.

So I get to CAN and see my friend Joo, or Pastor Joo as the youth call him. We talk and he tells me about the recent Presbytery experience and laughs as I tell him no one was at CAN the last time I was there. Acutaly Joo was in SD, Thao ( the other adult from CAN that attended Triennium ) was in Nashville, Est, one of the youth was in Atlanta and Easter, Moses's sister was not at worship the last time I was there.

Thao who is church's adminstrative assistant sees me and and says "Moses is not speaking for a while, it got pushed back again due to introducing the new interns this Sunday" Argh, I thought since it was in the bulletin it would happen as scheduled, guess I should have checked with Moses or Thao earlier in the week.

Worship began, no praise music this week as the guitar player had a baby early in the week. The first hymn was a Charles Wesly hymn ( a friend of mine in seminary loved when we sang one of the Wesly brothers hymns). we sang out of the non-presbyterian hymnal I was not familar with.

Passing of the peace was once again everyone meeting in the center aisle, I joined in this time as I sought out some of the youth I knew. the sermon seemed early in the serivce, maybe not as much litrgy, announcements later in the service read by the worship leader ( at CAN the worship leader commits to a whole month) and no children's message( the kids have their own worship service downstairs, not sure how I feel about this,I will do a post on children in worship sometime).

Note, I have not commented on Sermons much in some of my previous posts, plan to change that with church visit posts from now on. The Pastor preaching was the Immigrant ministry Pastor - David Mwihia ( who is from an African country, I don't remember at the moment). His sermon was titled "My Grace is Sufficient" it was an ok sermon, he didn't catch my attention and keep it. Also not sure if I agreeded with the way he defined Grace and the examples he used of what he thought was Grace. He finished with a good story though, the just of it was a man meets Peter at the gates to heaven and told he needs 100 points to get into heaven. The man goes through how he lived his life and Peter awards him 10 points, he talks about his church life and faith and is given another 1/2 a point. He says the only way I could get into heaven at this point is by the grace of God, and Peter says exactly, through God's grace you get the remaining points to get into heaven.

Once again there is no music during the offering but this week they introduced the three new interns. In reflecting on this music is one way of giving an offering to God ( in addition to the money collected by passing the plates) and giving testimonay or in this case being an intern is another form of offering. Pastor Jin, announced that Dana and Joo were granted another year on their internships by the session earlier in the week. Dana works with young adults and will be adding intergenerational ministry, Joo works with the youth. Then the three new interns were introduced, Paul will be working with campus ministry focusing on Northwestern and Bethel students. John will be a generalist, and Herb will be observing the congregation and at the end of the year giving a report on how the racial harmony of the congregation is. The interesting thing is Paul and John both graduated from Seminary and have their MDIV's and Herb has a PHD and is a professor at United Seminary and Hamline? Pastor Jin said between the three of them they make $200 a week, he made a mention about not spending a lot of money on staff salaries, so the need for interns and congregation members need to do their part for programs to succed.

One thing that Pastor Jin mentioned was a delima the session is having in concerns about future growth of CAN, he said with the way things are going ( very optimistic, from my viewpoint) that CAN could become a mega church and no one wants that so how do you prevent this from happening but yet not be like once the church has reached 400 ( odd number example he picked, does 400 make a church mega church like?) do we close the doors, no but the hope is in a few years one of the interns who help start another CAN like church in another part of the metro with CAN members that live in that area ( I would be curious to know how large of a geographic area CAN draws from).

While I am not sure having five interns is the way to do staffing at a church, some of the basic philosphy of Pastor Jin and CAN appeals to me and again could be a church that I eventually join.

Following the offering they sang the doxology ( something I missed last Sunday at St. Luke) and I was delighted to sing Father, song, holy ghost for the last line. I have a feeling as anti gender netural lanuage and not a fan of Sophia ( or the notion of a female wisdon deity, stuggled with the wisdom lit class in seminary) that God has a sense of doing things such that I may in the future be motivated to reconsider these positions( whoa, guess that is a soapbox for another post).

back to the service, they did not have a prayer of dedication after the offering was brought up front during the doxology. starting to think about what part of the "traditional presbyterian reformed worship service" is really important and which things can be modified or not done and for it still to be a Presbyterian worship serivce? My Presbyterian worship/polity instructor and the by the book, Book of Order (BOO) Presbyterians might say you don't have much flexiblity with these parts based on the book of worship section of the BOO, but I am starting to be more open in my thinking about this, as a reformed tradition aren't we always reforming?

In the welcome they had the visitors stand and introduce themselves ( a number of Northwestern students this week) think this fits with the small family church, transpencey the people of CAN seem to want, these ideas have been mentioned a few times when I have been at CAN. I applaud them for being open with this, I have been in churches that want to be a small family church but then claim they want to grow and be a program church, you can't be both, think being a program church is not a mega church, but some fear it as it is.

The announcements are found in the "our Life together" section of the bulletin but also read by the worship leader ( which is an efficent way of doing them) During the announcments they put a picture of the new baby ( mentioned earlier) on the screen, nice use of the screen in worship. Think use of technology will be another future post. Following worship I talked to Paul ( the new campus ministry intern) who I had met previously as he is Thao's boyfriend. He commented on how well he things CAN is structured, but he said there is also a unique fluidly to it, I mentioned that I had come twice to hear Moses and both times it was rescheduled, his comment was, thats the fluidity. Talking with Pastor Jin his comment was this rescheduling is a way to keep me coming back. I like Pastor Jin's quick wit.

So I probably will be back at CAN in another two weeks if Moses's testimony does not get rescheduled again ( I will check during the week this time). I like many things about CAN, but have not felt welcomed very much as a visitor either time, this could be partly because I am less than outgoing myself, and have not identifed myself as a visitor during the welcome time yet( also there are not pad's to sign in on. Writing the statements where I wonder if I am partly to blame for not feeling welcomed was once described by a Lutheran friend as what they call Lutheran guilt, I think it is part of the Minnesota way of being humble.

Church visit #8 St Luke's- chaos?

I decided to visit St. Lukes this week as they were welcoming their canidate for their new head of staff Pastor. I also was curious about St. Lukes as I have heard lots of things about it. I found the church easily and was about 10 minutes early. I knew that they do not have an asphalt parking lot ( they would rather spend the money on mission) but was a little caught off guard by the chaos this brought . People parked on the grass, even right next to the church building and formed their own sense of parking rows. I was worried about getting blocked in after the service.

I walked into a modern space with a lot of energy and people socializing, was surprized at how many people where there that early before the start of the serivce. I wonder if this is due to a good education program before worship, if people came early to catch up after being gone during the summer, or maybe there was a meet and greet reception prior to worship for Dr. Gwin Pratt the HOS canidate. The worship space is just inside the doors so I made my way to a seat ( glad they had padding, and were not folding chairs as I had heard they had). I was disapointed there were no ushers but found the bulletins in the back. I was welcomed as I entered the building and then as a woman sat next to me she talked to me ( the first church in my visits where I knew no one that this occured). I laughed inside as I saw a section labeled as a "scent free section" , the pollically correct stuff begins.

Since the worship space and "narthex" area seem to flow together people seemed to socialize in the worship space as if it was fellowship time. This seemed to be more noticeable as the volume level of people visiting was high due to the concreate floors, high ceilings, open space and little soft surfaces to dampen the sound. The prelude started about 10 minutes late and it was amzaing how quickly the visiting ceased and it seemed people were prepared for worship. I think the time for centering is very good for this congregation.

The serivice started with announcements and the people doing the announcements were in a line by the podium so it seemed organized and went fairly fast. There was a book to sign and pass, but no passing the peace which surprised me with this socialable congregation.

The children's message was teaching the song "shake another hand" the congregation got into it. Rev. Gwin Pratt did a great job introducing himself and working humor and life application along with scripture into his sermon. My thought going in was being that the congregation would vote on him after the serivce, so this was a "trial sermon" as he descibed it, that this would be his best sermon.

Communion as I mentioned in previous posts is something I have strong opinions about so here goes. In the invitation to the table the Pastor invited parents to get their children from faithful friends ( where the kids go after the children's message) if they want to take communion. I have an issue with this , I do not think we need to do the whole first communion thing at a certain age, but at one time I heard and like the idea that taking communion is tied to and in response to the sermon and the scripture read. Therefore if the kids leave before the scripture is read and the word is proclaimed they should not come back for communion. I would say that with this arguement that if you are an adult working in the nursery or with the kids away from the sanctuary should not take communion unless you heard the sermon( some nursery's have the sound from the sanctary in them).

While I am still not a fan of intinction for doing communion I tend to have warmed to the idea if done efficently. Being the visitor I was surpized there were no instructions on coming down one aisle and back another but thought I would follow those around me. I was in the center of a row and half the row went one way , the other half went the other way. I watched as there was no sense of order to which aisle you went up and which you came back. people were walking around each other in both dirrections, it seemed like chaos to me. Then I listened and realized the music was a Beatles medly ( think during communion this seemed odd) and that people socalized like it was fellowship hour again ( more chaos) I missed the reflective nature I am used to during communion.

Following communion was the benedication and sending ( seemed strange to not have a closing hymn) but after the benediction the congergation grabbed each others hands and sang a closing song I really enjoyed but not being in the bulletin I did not know the words. the woman next to me who was a regular attender at St. Lukes commented to me afterwards even she did not know the words.

As I left I was greeted again by a woman who sat in front of me , so this congregation gets lots of credit for people greeting and welcoming vistors. Best so far in this sense I have experienced. I liked the friendlyness, welcoming nature of this congregation, but the chaos and the PC stuff would drive me nuts long term.

Church visit #7 Church of All Nations (CAN)

I had been to CAN before for a meeting once and to drop off Presbytery youth ministry materials another time but had never attended worship here before. I came this week to see Moses a youth who went to Triennium give his testimony. Pulling into the parking lot it was not very full but being labor day weekend this was not surprising. I think it is not fair to only visit a church on certain summer holiday weekends ( memorial day, 4th of July and Labor day) as a number of the regular attendies are gone. I did not encounter any greeters but this may have been because I was early or I may have went through the wrong door. The sanctuary while the traditional long center aisle, did not seem lost in time as some do. Maybe the bightness of the light coming in helped. I am begining to realize I like sanctaury's that are bight and full of natural light. There is a screen up front for the hymns. The service begins with praise music led by the praise team. They ask the congegation to stand and join them few people do stand and don't seem to know the songs. At first I wondered if the praise songs were a new thing but discover later that many are visitors, seems like about 80% of the people around me are visitors there to celebrate the 104th birthday of the matriarc of the congregation. when it comes to passing the peace Pastor Jin Kim asks people to gather in the center aisle and many seem to do this and passing the peace goes on longer than I am used to . Pastor Jin's sermon is very good he talks about how culture is changing and the PCUSA is slow to adapt and how we need to consider how we react to culture. he makes the point that christianity has been around since Paul and the disciples spread the word, but the specific churches, demoniations they started are not still around and that Luther and the protestants did not intially intend to start new demonations but wanted to reform the catholic church. He talked about the three groups in the PCUSA those who don't want to change anything and are content with that , those who want to leave the PCUSA and those in the middle of these two groups. I did not time the sermon but feel it was longer than I am used to but it did not lose my attention. After the sermon they "welcomed" guests by having them stand and say where they are from. I do not like this and did not take part in this. One thing that was unusal was instead of music during the offering they had a member do a testimony. As I left I thought this is a church I could be a member at. Also when I got to my car the lot was full and spilled out onto the street parking , so the congegation was a late arriving one ( I was not that early). I am going back in two weeks as Moses's testimony is rescheduled for then.

church visit #6 Faith Presbyterian

Today August 26, I went to a church that while it is part of our Presbytery I do not know much about it. I choose this church this week for a couple of reasons but to be honest the most compelling one is that they had a 10:30am service, the early summer ones are too early for me. Despite driving past the church and needing to turn around I had given myself plenty of time so I was a little early. Upon entering the building I was greeted by one of the greeters stationed by the door and found my way into the Sanctary. My first thought was I was surprised how small and intimate the space seemed, I was expecting a larger space with the size of the church congregation. The space despite the bright recessed lights felt closed in and somewhat not welcoming with the exposed rough concrete walls and bright red carpeted chancel area. I looked for the TV cameras as it felt like more of a TV studio than a sanctury and I waited for the televangist to appear up front. I began to think about how much architecture of a space can set the mood, comfort level. There were video clips showing on the screen up front before the service started. Being a blended worship service there was not Prelude to set the tone and signal the start of the service instead one of the "praise" band singers greeted everyone, invited the congregation to sing a hymn out of an older looking non Presbyterian hymnal. There was no PCUSA hymnal to be found in pews. Then three "praise" songs were sung. They all had a taize, or slower more reflective pace to them, even though Open the eyes of my heart, I have always sung as a more upbeat, joyful song. I questioned their idea of praise music. Next was the children's message, it seemed really early in the service (wonder what this says about their view of children in worship). The woman giving the message had a pitcher of water and a cup, she first tried filling the cup with it turned upside down and asked the kids why it wasn't working. She then went on to talk about how sometimes we do not pay much attetion to God and his love rolls off us and does not fill us up like the upside down cup. This theology brothers me as I think even when we are not as focused on God he still fills us with his love, and we do not need to do anything to receive his love. Next was to be the prayer of confession ( not sure how I feel about this coming after the childrens message and the kids have left) but the pastor must have skipped over this and not realized it. He then did the prayers of the people and the Lord's prayer, think this is out of order as this such come after the proclaimtion of the word. Another Pastor got up and did the announcements thing, and then people read testimonies about Stephens ministers. A visiting missionary was introduced next and she was interviewed on the chancel " stage" which seemed odd. The preaching Pastor read the scripture which was projected on the screen and then started his sermon. His sermon started out talking about our changing culture, I was worried he was going to turn this into a moralistic sermon, telling us what was good and what was bad, but he did not. He used two tv commericals one from the 50's and one from the 90's to illustrate the change in culture. He said we " the church" need to learn to adapt to the changes in culture, not to ignore them, try to keep them out, or fight them. He said for churches to grow we need to consider those 38 years and younger. I was pleased he did not think this meant just tweaks to the programs of the church but more overriding change and examination. One stat he used struck me he said one church trend analyst said churches need to have 25% of their makeup be 38 years or younger to survive beyond the next 20 years.
So overall impressions, disturbed by the "praise music" and the children's message, liked the Sermon, but it did not feel like a Presbyterian reformed service and the evangilism tones were too much for me, so I probably would not go back.

church visit #5 White Bear Lake

Originally I titled this post the landlocked inner ring church. I was at White Bear Lake for a reunion overnight for the group that attended Triennium from our Presbytery. We helped lead the worship service with this group. My comment about being landlocked is due to the fact this church has a very small parking lot and is surrounded very closely by houses, so there seems to be little or no room to expand. This seemed odd for a suburb church. The sanctuary while it is the traditional long center aisle sanctuary, due to a renovation in recent times it does not feel as old or trapped in time as some from this era do. The congregation was smaller than I expected but it was early August when many families tend to take summer trips. Being up front and focusing on the songs we sang I had a different view than I would have gotten from the pews. The two youth from White Bear who gave the sermon, did a great job, I think all in attendance see Shane being a preacher in his future, must be in his famillies genes.

church visit #4 Valley Presbyterian

It was the workcamp echo service this week at Valley. While I have been gone from Valley quite a few years I have gone to the Echo service most years. I guess I go because it brings back fond memories of my workcamp experiences and I enjoy seeing the current youth show their enthusiam for workcamps. I still know many of these youth from Clearwater retreats, joint events Plymouth did with Valley and the annual christmas day broomball game. I also know many of the adults in the congregation from growing up here. So in some ways it feels like going home. Someday I could see myself back at Valley, but for a few reasons I don't plan to go back anytime soon. For the most part the serivce feels like a Valley service I am used to with the exception of the Well Springs band and the words on the screen which were things added after I left Valley. The one thing they added that the traditionalist in me does not like is the gender netural lanuage. The trinity for me will always be Father , Son, Holy Ghost.

Church visit #3 Peace Presbyterian

I visited Peace Presbyterian this Sunday as my friend Gary was preaching. I arrived early and was welcomed by many and then saw Gary and Chris ( who I know through Clearwater retreats). I was expecting a few people I know that were also coming to hear Gary preach. I spent quite a bit of time outside the sanctuary waiting for others and was welcomed as I waited. I went in to the sanctuary and sat in the front row as the service started. My brother eventually showed up and joined us in the front. The congregation had some young people and with the video screen seemed to be trying to attract younger familes, but the church still feels somewhat stuck in the 60's or 70's. Not sure what would change this perception. The one thing they did I liked and have not seen at other churches is use a camera at the back to show Gary and the kids on the screen during the children's message. I also liked Gary's use of the screen for visuals during his sermons. the service was traditional and nothing else really stuck out as unsual. Some might not like the songs and scripture shown on the screen but I think it is ok , seems the person changing the slides this week was still learning how and when to change them.

Church visit #2 Buffalo Presbyterian church

I visited Buffalo Presbyterian for a few reasons. One it is somewhat in my area, a little bit of a hike. I was curious based on its website (the church looks big and modern) what this church would be like. I did not know much about it. Finally the new Interim pastor Julia is part of a planning group I am in. I was not exactly sure how long it would take me to get to the church and I needed to fill my car with gas on my way out ( I gased up in Rockford, which was a better price than around Plymouth/Maple Grove). So while the church was easy to find I got there a little late, during the announcements. The greeters at the door were freindly and welcoming . The church seemed smaller than I expected and had more of a country church feel to it, that felt to be in contrast to what I expected based on the contempary architecture of the building on the outside. The sanctuary had an older small town/country feel to it. I was surprised at how grey the congergation seemed and wondered if there would be any children for the children's message ( there were, not sure where they came from). The serivce its self was ok , Julia's sermon resonated with me as she talked about wandering in the wilderness, much like I feel with out a job or church home. I wondered as I left if this church will be able to capitalize on the rapid growth of Buffalo and the movement of the suburbs in that direction. Silly as it may sound the thing I was most excited about from this visit was not the church, but finding the great Menards store in Buffalo on my way out of town. If all Menards were like that I would shop there instead of Lowes or Home depot. seemed that they took the inside lumber yard idea from Lowes and home depot, plus this store had some basic grocery's much like non Supertargets. I am not sure if grocery's would work in metro area Menards but for Buffalo I am sure the one stop shopping really works. My overall impression of Buffalo was that of a country church that might need to make some changes to grow and become younger.

Church visit #1 - Lord of Life Lutheran

I know my intent is to visit Presbyterian churches in the area. Lord of Life is less than five minutes from my home so I visited it out of convence and the fact that I know the youth leadership team there from Luther Seminary. I have been to Lord of Life a number of times, this was not my first visit, but I went this week to hear Pastor Todd, who I took a couple of youth ministry classes from at Luther preach. While I enjoy going to Lord of Life, I think size wise it is too big for me. The worship service is familiar and welcoming, think maybe it reminds me of worship in the chapel at Luther. The one thing I wonder about is building community and a sense of belonging here. They do not do passing of the peace (even during communion, which I thought was part of the LBW communion service, at Luther it was) or have a friendship pad to sign in and pass down the aisle. So you do not know who is worshiping next to you and unless someone goes out of there way to greet you ( which has never occurred in the times I have worshiped at Lord of life) you do not feel welcomed or part of the community you are worshiping with. I think it would be easy to get lost in the crowd at LOL. There must be something that brings me and others back, my sense is it is all that a large church can offer. LOL has lots of small groups and programing for every age and demographic group. I think you could find your niche this way. I do like the feel of the sanctuary. It is bright and full of light. I also have found the music to be very good, some Sat. night I want to go hear their praise music group. I have found the sermons preached to be very insightful and applicable to ones life. I do like the option of all worship times to choose from. It seems they welcome new members almost every week, although I have yet to attend a service where this occurs. Having like 5 Pastor's they tend to rotate the person leading worship each week so if you don't like someones sermons they will probably only preach once a month. Something I really like at LOL is they always end the service with a sending that is their mission statement and therefore reinforces it for the congregation. How many churches can their members recite their mission statement from memory? Communion. while I know this Sacrament is a big part of worship I have strong opinions about the way communion is done and my biggest gripe is the amount of time it takes sometimes. At LOL they do the "stations" for intinction so things move fairly well, especially for the size of the congregation. One thing Lutherans do that I found different and did not like at first is that the congregation sings songs during communion. I always thought special music was played by others and allowed the congregation to focus on when they are to go up and then be reflective when they sit back down. I think the songs with active participation help the time past faster. One thing that I know churches are dealing with in communion us allergies ( gluten) and for Lutherans the wine or grape juice debate. LOL does a nice job of offering grape juice and gluten free wafers at a separate station, so that all do not need to partake in these elements. LoL also has a Pastor who is at one side of the sanctuary during communion who is there to pray with individuals. I really liked that as well. Overall I enjoy worshiping at LOL and probably will continue to do so occasionally, but I would have a hard time joining, not just because it is not Presbyterian.

purpose of this blog

Sometimes I think I want to write only for myself to remember and look back on things, other times I want to write to share with others. A blog in being on the web leans toward sharing with others, but you can still limit who you share with somewhat by giving your blog url to select people. I think you or someone else could stumble on your blog without having been given the url, but I am not sure how much this happens. Recently I had a conversation with a peer about how youth tend not to have a sense of boundaries that most of us older folks have. We discussed how youth share things on line, often than many have access to read that many older generation would consider too personal and maybe not appropriate to share in such public forum. I wonder if the fact that this "public" is not face to face with you, or even talking to you verbally creates a disconnect from them that drops some of these sense of boundaries? In this rambling I guess I am wondering how much and what things I want to share and with whom in this blog. One thing that spurred creation of this blog is that since June I have been on a different journey. I think we in some sense are always on a journey but for me, leaving my position as youth and children's ministries director at a suburban church without a clear idea of whats next has led me on this unique journey. I know that while I think I will take a break from being paid to do youth ministry, I still want to do youth ministry as a volunteer. It had been suggested that I work on the youth ministry for our Presbytery ( local governing/connectional body for the surrounding area. One thing I decided to do in connection with this is take the freedom of not needing to worship in the same church each Sunday to explore many of the churches in our Presbytery. It is also hoped to use these visits to connect with the youth leaders of these churches. Today in one such visit I felt compelled to write down some thoughts/reflections from this visit and use a blog to do the same for future and past visits.